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Scale By The Bay 2018: Bryan Cantrill, Rust and Other Interesting Things

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10K subscribers • 10 videos on Hallway

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  • Recommended by 8 people: 5 on Hacker News, 1 on Lobsters, 1 in engineering communities and 1 curated list.
  • A classic. People kept recommending it from 2018 to 2024.
  • Presented by Bryan Cantrill, CTO of Joyent
  • An opinion. It argues one side of a question engineers disagree on.

Intermediate. Assumes working knowledge.

45K views7 years ago8 recommendations

Programming languagesSystems programmingRustLanguage design and type systems

Bryan Cantrill explains how programming languages and platforms reflect core values, using Rust, Solaris, and DTrace as examples.

This talk video is a node in devreal.ai, the developer community graph. It connects to: Talk: Rust and Other Interesting Things — devreal.ai/t/181116-rust-other-interesting-things-scale-by-t… Speaker: Bryan Cantrill — devreal.ai/n/bryan-cantrill Company: Joyent — devreal.ai/c/joyent Event: Scale by the Bay — devreal.ai/e/181114-scale-by-the-bay-conference Explore these connections and related videos, photos, speakers’ blogs and podcasts, and other By the Bay networks. ----- Bryan, the CTO of Joyent, and a core contributor to Solaris, ZFS, and DTrace, formerly a Distinguished Engineer at Sun, has recently picked up Rust. He'll share his experience with us.

Why it's here

8 people recommend this

What people say. Recommended as an excellent explanation of how programming language and platform values attract developers and shape software ecosystems.

u/theindigamerin r/ProgrammingLanguages • Recommends

What are the core values of the language(s) you're developing? I was just watching this talk by Bryan Cantrill (author of dtrace) where he talks about the core values of a language (or a platform more generally) and how they attract other people. The list is - * Approachability * Availability * Compatibility * Composability * Debuggability * Expressiveness * Extensibility * Interoperability * Integrity * Maintainability * Operability * Performance * Portability * Resiliency * Rigor * Robustness * Safety * Security * Simplicity * Stability * Thoroughness * Transparency * Velocity For C, he picks out 4 values - Interoperability, Performance, Portability, Simplicity and gives a brief expla…
36View on Reddit

freeminton Hacker News • Recommends

On “Correctness and composability bugs in the Julia ecosystem”

As a huge fan of Julia i got to fully agree. Although i would probably not "no longer recommend Julia" but "give huge caveats when mentioning Julia". Organisations (that includes those who maintain programming language) have values Bryan Cantrill has an excellent talk on this link to this video and i got to agree with the author that correctness (especially correctness under arbitary composability) is not a value that Julia teaches and instills in its users. Some Julia users care about this, some core maintainers do to (as the Pkg3 demonstrates). However there are many invocations (SafeTestSets vs Test) and stumbling blocks. I am aware of no efforts to do formal verification on Julia code. There are no…
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programming-talkscurated list on GitHubRecommends

Under “Programming Language Design”

Rust and Other Interesting Things 00:37:06 by **Bryan Cantrill** (2018)
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j11gon Lobsters • Recommends

Scale By The Bay 2018: Bryan Cantrill, Rust and Other Interesting Things
4View on Lobsters

btschaeggon Hacker News • Recommends

On “Modern Javascript: Everything you missed over the last 10 years (2020)”

Bryan Cantrill explains a very interesting thought about that here: link to this video I'm sure there are many other factors that play into this (just look at Gary Bernhardt's "WAT" talk), but essentially, I agree that this has to be a big part of the problem. If you've been developing backend systems and asked to hold up robustness and stability guarantees for multiple years and then run into Javascript, you will likely run into situations where you have to make up for its deficiencies in that regard. That doesn't make it a bad language per se -- that's the case with any language in some aspects -- but since JS will be a new language to you, you're much less likely to accept that situation as a given.
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josephgon Hacker News • Recommends

On “Growing object-oriented software vs. what I would do”

No, I'm not. Or at least, not as I see it. How would you describe javascript's values, compared to other languages? This is a great chart / explanation of this kind of thinking from Bryan Cantrill: link to this video
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jamincanon Hacker News • Recommends

On “Rust in 2022”

Bryan Cantrill has an interesting talk that discusses various languages in terms of their values that you might finding interesting: link to this video
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codetrotteron Hacker News • Recommends

On “CrowdStrike accepting the PwnieAwards for "most epic fail" at defcon”

…real “engineering” that goes on in the field of “software engineering”, industry wide, in terms of ensuring that our software is reliable and secure. Performance and development velocity seem to take the driver seat always, in a whole lot of software. See also this talk by Bryan Cantrill, “Scale by the Bay 2018: Rust and Other Interesting Things” link to this video where he talks about software platform values, in the sense of what different programming languages and other things focus on. He also touches on the fact that while higher level layers in the stack might value security it kind of falls apart when the very microcode in our CPUs sacrifices security for performance. This was in a period of ti…
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u/Tubthumper8in r/ProgrammingLanguages • Mentions

On “Don't pick "the right tool for the job" when choosing a language!”

> I very often see the argument "pick the right tool for the job" bring a quick end to discussions about one programming language being better than the other 1. I have also seen this as a way to end a discussion. Which is kind of a bummer because programming languages are so interesting to talk about! 2. I think what you're really getting at here, you didn't say it, but that programming languages are much more than "just tools". It's an entire ecosystem of libraries, compilers, **people**, educational materials, academia/research, organization/governance, etc. Could go on and on, but it's way more than a tool. 3. Another thing you could consider is the **values** held by the community tha…
17View on Reddit

codesectionson Hacker News • Mentions

On “Haskell is a Bad Programming Language (2020)”

> I can't recall which exact presentation it was, but Bryan Cantrill had a brilliant segment on this in one of them. Perhaps others around here can remember? I think that's his discussion of language values in "Rust and Other Interesting Things" at Scale By The Bay 2018. link to this video [edit: This talk is also titled "Platform values, Rust, and implications for systems software". I'm not sure which title is preferred.]
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scuddon Hacker News • Mentions

On “I Want a New Duck (2020)”

…hese languages was ease and flexibility, ableit at the cost of structure. Or said differently, adding mypy feels like trying to get out of a trade-off decision. This situation reminds me of a talk Bryan Cantrill gave on platform core values, and as examples he gave his interpretation of the platform core values of languages like C, Awk, and Scala: link to this video For me, platform core values that stick out for python would be Approachability, Simplicity, and Velocity. I understand the posited value mypy brings to the table, but it feels in contention with the original core values that made python appealing to begin with.…
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db48xon Hacker News • Mentions

On “Instant replay: Debugging C and C++ programs with rr”

The real cost to my client was that for months or years their system had been crashing, and they could do nothing about it. They just had to live with it, rerunning jobs that had crashed. Maybe the compile times would have been unfortunate, but I think they would have come out ahead. On the other hand, they probably wouldn’t have had to hire me. Speed isn’t everything: link to this video
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josephgon Hacker News • Mentions

On “Don't Feed the Thought Leaders”

The struggle here is that in software, sometimes hedgehog thinking is correct. The discernment challenge isn't in spotting hedgehog thinking and choosing fox thinking instead. The challenge is in figuring out in what domains hedgehogs are right and in which domains foxes are right. Unlike in the arena of politics, in software hedgehogs reap the benefits of deep expertise. When are hedgehogs right? In the "obvious" stuff: - You should always use correct indentation in your code - Document your architecture decisions. Have conversations in your team to get feedback and buy in. - When practical, try and keep down the number of languages and databases you use. It'll make onboarding easier and it…
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chalston Hacker News • Mentions

On “Jax vs. Julia (Vs PyTorch)”

I guess the Cantrill talk you are referring to must be 'Software as a reflection of values' from 2018: link to this video
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