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#socialsecuritynumber#nationalid#identitytheft

America Keeps Rejecting an ID Card It Already Has

CGP Grey

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  • Recommended by 14 people: 14 on Hacker News.
  • A classic. People kept recommending it from 2017 to 2024.
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Beginner. No background in the topic needed.

13M views9 years ago14 recommendations

SecurityDatabases and dataPrivacy and surveillanceCryptography

CGP Grey explains how the Social Security number became a de facto national identifier despite its lack of security features.

The Social Security card and number explained. Special Thanks: Stephen P. Morse, PhD. stevemorse.org Ralph Gross, Postdoctoral Fellow, Carnegie Mellon University. peexlab.com Alessandro Acquisti, Professor, Carnegie Mellon University Mark Govea, Thomas J Miller Jr MD, Bob Kunz, John Buchan, Andres Villacres, Nevin Spoljaric, Christian Cooper, Michael Little, Ripta Pasay, Tony DiLascio, Richard Jenkins, Chris Chapin, Saki Comandao, Tod Kurt, Jason Lewandowski, Michael Mrozek, Phil Gardner, سليمان العقل, Jordan Melville, Martin , Steven Grimm, rictic , Ian , Faust Fairbrook, Chris Woodall, Kozo Ota, Colin Millions, Guillermo , Timothy Basanov, Chris Harshman, ChoiceMechanicalDenver.com , Donal Botkin, David Michaels, Ron Bowes, Tómas Árni Jónasson, Mikko , Derek Bonner, Derek Jackson, Orbit_Junkie , Alistair Forbes, Robert Grünke (trainfart), Veronica Peshterianu, Paul Tomblin, Travis Wichert, chrysilis , Ryan E Manning, Erik Parasiuk, Rhys Parry, Maarten van der Blij, Kevin Anderson, Ryan Nielsen, Esteban Santana Santana, Dag Viggo Lokøen, Tristan Watts-Willis, John Rogers, Edward Adams, Leon , ken mcfarlane, Brandon Callender, Timothy Moran, Peter Lomax, Emil , Tijmen van Dien, ShiroiYami , Alex Schuldberg, Bear , Jacob Ostling, Solon Carter, Rescla , Andrew Proue, Tor Henrik Lehne, David Palomares, Cas Eliëns, Freddi Hørlyck, Ernesto Jimenez, Osric Lord-Williams, Maxime Zielony, Lachlan Holmes , John Bevan, John Lee, Ian N Riopel, AUFFRAY Clement, David , Alex Morales, Alexander Kosenkov, Elizabeth Keathley, Kevin , Pierre Perrott, Tadeo Kondrak, James Bissonette, Jahmal O'Neil, Naturally Curious, Nantiwat , Tianyu Ge, Kevin Jeun, Jason Ruel, JoJo Chehebar, Danny Lunianga Xavier, Jeremy Peng, Jennifer Richardson, Rustam Anvarov Music by: davidreesmusic.com

Why it's here

14 people recommend this

What people say. Recommended as the clearest and most entertaining explanation of why the US Social Security number is an insecure identifier.

bmeltonon Hacker News • Recommends

On “The Equifax breach may be the worst leak of personal info ever”

For anyone who wants an explanation at just how bad the social security number really is, this is the most enjoyable explanation for it I've seen, by CGP Grey link to this video

sagitariusrexon Hacker News • Recommends

On “The Equifax Breach Exposes America's Identity Crisis”

For everybody who isn't acquainted with how Social Security Cards work in the US and how they came to be I highly recommend watching "Social Security Cards Explained" by CGP Grey link to this video He also explains why US citizens don't have an Identity Card as opposed to many European countries.

mjevanson Hacker News • Recommends

On “Men Without Work”

Don't blame the immigrants, blame those who are fully or partly paying under the table. Of course, would you support a national ID card as a means of combating this variable you accuse? In the US we pretty much have such a thing already, just without any proper security or identification aspects... link to this video (A short (< 8 min) video by the ever informative CGP Grey on the inanity of US SS cards.)

alehulon Hacker News • Recommends

On “Cybersecurity Incident Involving Consumer Information”

…ave?' tax discounts; now they'd need to register their child with a SSN. Companies eventually began piggybacking on the number as a national identifier (due to our lack of one), and voila. We're left with an awfully insecure identification system that shouldn't be an identification system for much in the first place. For anyone interested in more: link to this video , and the sources below the video.…

SimbaOnSteroidson Hacker News • Recommends

On “Cybersecurity Incident Involving Consumer Information”

You're right it was never meant to be a unique identifier, we need a national identification card, link to a video about it. link to this video

vecon Hacker News • Recommends

On “Stop Calling it ‘Identity Theft’”

CGP Gray did a really good video1 about this recently. The short version is that it's the least terrible mechanism presently available for uniquely identifying and disambiguating American citizens. 1 link to this video

Qub3don Hacker News • Recommends

On “Senators push to ditch social security numbers in light of Equifax hack”

Here's a relevant pop science video by CGP Grey0 that explains all the various problems with SSNs. My favorite part is the fact that until quite recently (2011) you could decrement or increment a given SSN by 1 and get another valid SSN, since they were sequential. 0: link to this video

ocdtrekkieon Hacker News • Recommends

On “FTC Approves Roughly $5B Facebook Settlement”

Actually, the SSN is an account number, solely intended for tracking money paid into and paid out of an account. It isn't meant for identification, and the method it's used for identification is terrible. (Largely: If you know the number, you are identified.) It's treated like a secret, but as a 9-digit number you give to dozens of organizations in your life which follows a predictable and partially guessable pattern, it is an absolutely terrible secret. Absolutely good explainer video about how this travesty took place historically: link to this video

manigandhamon Hacker News • Recommends

On “Bank of the Underworld (2015)”

CGP Grey recently made a great video about this exact problem with social security numbers: link to this video They were started to keep of taxes and never meant to be used as IDs.

remcobon Hacker News • Recommends

On “Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps”

This video does a great job explaining it: link to this video The summary is that the USA does not have an official national person identity number. The SSN is the closest approximation, so it is being (ab)used as one. This is despite that it is explicitly not designed for it and has some qualities which make it less suitable (the numbers are small and very predictable). In general, nearly every national-identity-system suffers from a contradiction between assigning identities and identifying. Where the number you get assigned is simultaneously your identity and a secret you use to establish your identity. There are initiatives to solve this using cryptography, but this is complicated by political atti…

anitilon Hacker News • Recommends

On “No, I did not hack your MS Exchange server”

The story of how this happened is quite interesting. CGP Grey did a video about how it evolved 0. I'm not American so I can't judge how likely it is to ever change because it seems to be politically radioactive to propose a government mandated ID. We had a similar issue in Australia, but our workaround is that your drivers license (or ID card from the equivalent of the DMV) typically acts as your ID. 0 link to this video

SonicScrubon Hacker News • Recommends

On “U.S. military members' personal data being sold by online brokers”

There's an interesting story about how the social security number evolved to being much more than just for social security. Quick 5 minute primer: link to this video

kalverraon Hacker News • Recommends

On “It's Still Easy for Anyone to Become You at Experian”

I'm late to the party, but CGP Grey has an excellent video detailing the flaws of how SSNs are utilized. link to this video

quantumfissureon Hacker News • Recommends

On “Inside the "3 billion people" national public data breach”

For non-Americans (and Americans) that don't quite understand what SSN is and why it's a problem, CGP Grey 1 has a great (and short) video about the history and why it's not technically an identifier, but has become one. 1 link to this video

pfranzon Hacker News • Mentions

On “You can’t buy Congress’s web history – that's not how any of this works”

You're right. My guess is most "anonymized" data is lazy--stripping out obvious identifying information. There are quite a few cases where you can pinpoint users from correlating to publicly available data. CGPGrey posted a video today showing a layman's example with Social Security Numbers1. One cool thing I heard Apple talk about2 was injecting noise or subsampling to help mask individuals. Although, I don't see that mentioned in their public page on privacy3 or their whitepaper4. 1 link to this video 2 link 3 link 4 link

djsumdogon Hacker News • Mentions

On “For 18 years I thought she was stealing my identity, until I found her”

…m "You need to use this account; forget about the other one. It no longer exists," and get their stuff synced across all AD domains (Universities typically have several). What surprises me about this article is the NYC system doesn't use the SSN (which is good in a sense, it should never be used as a identification number, see the latest GCP Greg: link to this video ). The idea of an identity and criminal record us that follows us digitally is a very new concept, one that didn't exist 150+ years…