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The Great Debate @ARITH23: John Gustafson and William Kahan

dancefan

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  • Presented by John Gustafson and William Kahan
  • An opinion. It argues one side of a question engineers disagree on.

Advanced. Deep dive for people who know the field.

4.2K views10 years ago1 recommendation

Systems programmingComputer sciencePerformance and optimizationMath for programmersCPUs and computer architecture

John Gustafson and William Kahan debate the merits of unums and posits versus traditional IEEE 754 floating-point formats.

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What people say. Recommended as a historic and intense debate between the creator of IEEE 754 and the creator of posits.

celiason Hacker News • Recommends

On “Beyond Floating Point: Next-Generation Computer Arithmetic [pdf]”

The Great Debate @ARITH23: John Gustafson and William Kahan link to this video Audio quality is not great but there are links to slides from Gustafson and Kahan

zasdffaaon Hacker News • Mentions

On “Posits, a New Kind of Number, Improves the Math of AI”

I did some reading on unum a while back, inc. Kahan's criticisms. There's another side. There's a vid on youtube with Kahan and Gustafson talking over it. Kahan goes in like a wolf onto a lamb, much to gustafson's shock and hurt. Gustafson points out some of Kahan's criticisms are plain wrong, even citing the page in the book, then says something like "we should be working together on this, why aren't we working together?" Kahan doesn't respond. Kahan may be right or wrong but his attitude is weirdly hostile, and Gustafson is no n00b about floats. Edit: I think this is it (but it's been a while) link to this video

SideQuarkon Hacker News • Mentions

On “Will Floating Point 8 Solve AI/ML Overhead?”

Original posits are variable width, making them nearly useless for high performance parallel computations. Later versions don't add anything of use for low precision neural networks, and lack of hardware support anywhere make them too slow for anything other than toying around. See also link and link to this video

porkbrainon Hacker News • Mentions

On “Aztec monks with 1/55 HP no longer die when picking up or dropping a relic”

A related discussion about number types: The Great Debate @ARITH23: John Gustafson and William Kahan link to this video Kahan points out disadvantages of interval maths.