christophiluson Hacker News • Recommends
On “Normalization of Deviance”
Here is an excellent talk on this subject0. It's one of the few presentations I like to watch every once in a while. 0 link to this video
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#normalizationofdeviance#challengerdisaster#mikemullane
Mike Mullane - Normalisation of deviance - IAFF - Part 1
Stuart Walker
295 subscribers • 1 video on Hallway
- Recommended by 5 people: 4 on Hacker News and 1 on Lobsters.
- A classic. People kept recommending it from 2018 to 2022.
- Presented by Mike Mullane, NASA Astronaut
Beginner. No background in the topic needed.
179K views11 years ago5 recommendations
Tools and practiceCareers and interviewsCode review and teamworkDeveloper productivitySRE and incidents
Astronaut Mike Mullane explains the concept of normalization of deviance and how ignoring safety standards led to the Challenger space shuttle disaster.
Useful Normalisation of deviance links - The Challenger Launch Decision: Risky Technology, Culture, and Deviance at NASA 1st edition by Vaughan, Diane (1997) Paperback goo.gl/txwEkX - Firefighter Safety: The Normalization of Deviance - fireengineering.com/articles/2013/05/firefighter-safety--the… - Safety in mind: Normalisation of deviance - flightsafetyaustralia.com/2017/05/safety-in-mind-normalisati…Why it's here
5 people recommend thisWhat people say. Recommended by engineers as a crucial lesson on safety culture, team dynamics, and the dangers of gradually accepting minor standard violations.
Sidniciouson Hacker News • Recommends
On “Internal Documents Show Apple Knew the iPhone 6 Would Bend”
Mike Mullane’s “Normalisation of Deviance” talk to a group of firefighters1 is relevant here. He describes how the Challenger shuttle disaster happened despite internal memos about the problem years prior. The message of the talk is, essentially, that a person or team can get used to ignoring their own standards when under pressure. 1: link to this video
y04nnon Hacker News • Recommends
On “The risky bat-virus engineering that links America to Wuhan”
I like the term "normalization of deviance" and would recommand the Mike Mullane's talk on the Challenger disaster 1. 1: link to this video
slackerlolon Hacker News • Recommends
On “Keep calm and use the runbook”
The “preventable mistakes” point reminds me of this great video about “normalization of deviance” from routine/checklists link to this video
lamontcgon Hacker News • Mentions
On “Overnight Pizza and the Consistent Unreliability of Expert Guidelines”
…gerated pizza ten times without any Adverse Events, then in fact that's an experiment providing (admittedly crude) scientific data I'm going to strenuously disagree with this one. "I've done it 10 times and it has been fine for me" is the logic behind the normalization of deviance and the Shuttle disasters and (in my world) cave diving fatalities: link to this video As a cave diver I also see this leading to fatalities where divers cut corners on the rules of cave diving, see no immediate consequences and continue to do so up until they wind up dead some day (there are often very binary outcomes for breaking the rules in cave diving). The author of this article does provide a fairly compelling science-…
lamontcgon Hacker News • Mentions
On “‘I felt powerless – so I started filming’: CyclingMikey vs. dangerous drivers”
…e when you're on flat ground and have a rollaway). Similarly, signal your intentions every single time. You're doing it for the pedestrian you didn't see, or even just some idiot flying up the shoulder of the highway who shouldn't be there, but signal your intentions to take the exit so you move predictably. See also the normalization of deviance: link to this video…
lamontcgon Hacker News • Mentions
On “Tesla to recall vehicles that may disobey stop signs”
> A human breaks the rolling stop rule on a case by case basis and is responsible for the consequences Not really. You can fail to see a pedestrian and cripple them and you won't see a whole lot of consequences for your "accident" (negligence). Breaking rules on a case-by-case basis is also how the normalization of deviance occurs: link to this video If you break rules when you think you don't need to follow them you'll find that you're not 99.9% perfect and you will inevitably cause a crash. If you follow the rules all the time you won't make that error. The reason why computers should ultimately replace human drivers is precisely because we're dangerously incompetent and overconfident and shouldn't b…
lamontcgon Hacker News • Mentions
On “Tesla to recall vehicles that may disobey stop signs”
You're just encouraging the normalization of deviance. "Everyone does it". link to this video You can get away with it a hundred times, or a thousand times, but eventually you'll be tired and do it and clobber a pedestrian you didn't see because "you were tired" (so its not your fault, even though it 100% is). Stop thinking the way you do and stop being one of the 88% of American drivers who think they're above average. Follow the goddamn rules because you're not 99.99% perfect and its the .01% that is going to hurt someone else. And "I see the police doing it all the time" clearly isn't the right moral barometer, if you haven't been paying attention.
Litoston Hacker News • Mentions
On “Heuristics that almost always work”
Thanks for posting these, I'd only seen Normalisation of Deviance mentioned in these two youtube videos by Mike Mullane and never thought to look any further: link to this video link and the uploader references some further links: link link and references this book (about the Challenger Disaster): link which has an overview here: link including these two excerpts I found interesting in this context: "Chapter nine she explains how conformity to the rules, and the work culture, led to the disaster, and not the violation of any rules, as thought by many of the investigators. She concludes her book with a chapter on lessons learned." "She mainly emphasizes on the long-term impact of institutional…