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Indistinguishable From Magic: Manufacturing Modern Computer Chips

Andor Gafotas

809 subscribers • 1 video on Hallway

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  • Recommended by 20 people: 19 on Hacker News and 1 on Lobsters.
  • A classic. People kept recommending it from 2016 to 2024.

Beginner. No background in the topic needed.

209K views14 years ago20 recommendations

HardwareHistory and cultureCPUs and computer architectureElectronicsHistory of computing

An in-depth explanation of how modern computer chips are manufactured, detailing the physics, lithography, and engineering hacks behind nanoscale transistors.

Talk in HOPE09, NYC Modern computer chips are using transistors with features as small as 22nm. They are produced in factories that are 10,000 times cleaner than an operating room that can think like Skynet. Combined, the chips they produce run everything from your cell phone to the Internet itself. While outsiders might see it as the realm of multi-billion dollar corporations, in reality, it has been achieved through a hardcore application of the hacker mindset. Each new advancement involves hacking the theories of electrical engineering, hacking waves of light, and sometimes hacking physics. In this talk, we will go over how and why the design of a modern nanoscale transistor was developed. We will also talk about the processes used to build them, and the incredible equipment that makes it all possible. Plus some fun stories about what goes wrong.

Why it's here

20 people recommend this

What people say. Recommended as one of the best and most comprehensive explanations of how integrated circuits and nanoscale transistors are actually manufactured.

cnvogelon Hacker News • Recommends

On “Xerox Alto Restoration Part 5 [video]”

…ips". At roughly 36 minutes, there's a cross-section of a (in 2009) modern chip. The topmost layer is the shiny rainbowy topmost metal-layer you see on typical (from the top) die photographs. The very, very small comb-looking bottommost-layer is the individual transistors, and structures there are of the size that give a "xxx nm" process its name. link to this video I very much recommend everyone to watch this video, to get a sense for the complexity that goes into producing a modern CPU. To come back to the thread I'm answering here: The logic analyzer on the Alto (probing microcode) connected to interconnects of individual gates probably would be connected to signals somewhere in the lower middle of…
View on Hacker News

ahakkion Hacker News • Recommends

On “Ask HN: How modern chips are made?”

link to this video This talk on YouTube is the most in depth explanation of IC manufacuring I have seen. I highly recommend it to anyone, no matter their background. You really gain an appreciation of how insanely complex modern computers are. It’s from 2012 but he talks extensivly about how (2012-)future chips will be made. And most of the information is still applicable.
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manigandhamon Hacker News • Recommends

On “GlobalFoundries Stops All 7nm Development”

I highly recommend watching this, it's one of the best videos available on how chips are actually built and gives a great overview: "Indistinguishable From Magic: Manufacturing Modern Computer Chips" - link to this video
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Qub3don Hacker News • Recommends

On “Ask HN: What are some of the best technical talks you've heard?”

Indistinguishable From Magic: Manufacturing Modern Computer Chips 0. This talk is delivered really well and always leaves me with a sense of awe in how CRAZY it is that humans figured out integrated circuits. Its a bit out of date, but it gives enough of a peek under the hood to understand why Intel has had such difficulties going to 10 and 7mn processes1. 0: link to this video 1: link
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sl-1on Hacker News • Recommends

On “Intel’s Manufacturing Roadmap from 2019 to 2029”

Best resource I have run in to about this is this talk: link to this video It quickly introduces the various hacks we do in order to get ~30nm features on silicon. But the talk is quite dated (early 2010's), but never ceases to amaze me. Semiconductors are indistinguishable from magic indeed.
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olliejon Hacker News • Recommends

On “Intel Video Shows How It Makes a 10nm Processor”

I found this to be basically an ad. My favourite video on them is this one from many years ago, it’s a presentation by an engineer not being paid by a fab: link to this video
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If you think this is cool, watch this video. I've linked a relevant to the comment portion, but entire video is amazing: link to this video P.S. if anyone knows a more modern version of this talk, I would love to see it.
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…lso going to avoid potential delays as much as possible because these machines have to be running for as much of their useful life as possible to recoup the vast expense. The level of risk-averseness is insane, but warranted. If you haven't watched this video, I highly recommend it: Indistinguishable From Magic: Manufacturing Modern Computer Chips link to this video It's a little outdated now, but very comprehensive and gives you an idea of how totally nuts the chip business is.…
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On “Inside Pascal: Nvidia 's Newest Computing Platform”

I do not have the answers for your questions (and I don't think anyone can share actual failure rates), but I would direct you this video which goes over a lot of modern chip fabrication techniques, circa 2009: link to this video It's crazy stuff. There are wafer test machines which will interface with the wafer directly and do some testing (which are $$$$), JTAG type tests, which access parts of the chip out of band, and functional testing. Some products, like SD Cards actually have a microcontroller on board that will provide the test routines and error correction without the need of an expensive machine. Design for test is extremely important. I'm by no means an expert however, I mostly deal with JT…
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If you forgive the shameless self-promotion, I did a talk on the scale and economics and so forth a while back you might find interesting: link to this video It has been posted on HN a few times before...the technology still puts a tingle in my spine insert critcism of how I need to be a better public speaker here
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jacquesmon Hacker News • Recommends

On “Intel Discontinues the Intel Developer Forum; IDF17 Cancelled”

There are some exotic processes that give better performance but the economies of scale aren't there yet and the cost of production is probably always going to be much higher than that of Silicon, which is after all a very abundant element on Earth. There was a fantastic video about IC manufacturing linked here on HN a while ago, I'm not sure if I'll be able to find it. edit: Hah, found it :) link to this video
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I can't even begin to comprehend the complexity in a contemporary CPU. Recently I saw this video 1 and only juuust started to get an inkling as to how big the problem space is. 1 link to this video
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saganuson Hacker News • Recommends

On “New AMD side channel attacks discovered, impacts Zen architecture”

Sounds like this video: Indistinguishable from magic: Manufacturing modern computer chips link to this video Just amazing. I wish a newer video explaining more recent technologies was available.
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SonOfLiliton Hacker News • Recommends

On “Intel Ponte Vecchio GPU Will Be Made on TSMC 6nm Process, CPUs Could Be TSMC 3nm”

Each additional step requires solving a lot of new engineering problems and usually some new physics too, and it's not a linear process: many techniques are proposed that become cost effective only when previous techniques hit their size limits, and then a lot of research is done and most techniques are never gotten to work at scale and just a few pan out and become the next process. This is a great talk on the history of chip processes: link to this video This is about some of the challenges that had to be solved for a current modern process: link
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On “TSMC’s Wafer Prices Revealed: 300mm Wafer at 5nm Is Nearly $17,000”

Just doing some napkin math to give myself some other context in my own head with something much smaller, die size for the Apple A14 isn't out yet, but the A13 (found in the iPhone 11 series and SE 2) is around 98mm^2 manufactured on TSMC's 2nd gen 7nm N7P. A14 might be something like that, because while it's a smaller process Apple boosted transistor count by 38% as well. Lazily/conservatively taking off 10mm on the edge for squares into a circle, that'd be about 630 chips per N5 wafer, a high enough count that chip loss rate shouldn't be too far from defect rate. Even assuming they can get 90% yield right out the gate (maybe generous) that's still about $30/chip, just for manufacturing wit…
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Yes that's pretty similar to what is used. Each mask takes days to get simulated. It is getting "old" but this great video is covering it link to this video
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