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The Tragedy of systemd

linux.conf.au

32K subscribers • 14 videos on Hallway

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  • Recommended by 17 people: 16 on Hacker News and 1 on Lobsters.
  • A classic. People kept recommending it from 2019 to 2025.
  • Presented by Benno Rice, FreeBSD developer
  • An opinion. It argues one side of a question engineers disagree on.

Intermediate. Assumes working knowledge.

1.2M views7 years ago17 recommendations

Systems programmingOperating systemsLinux

FreeBSD developer Benno Rice explores the history of Unix init systems to explain why systemd was created and why it remains controversial.

Benno Rice 2019.linux.conf.au/schedule/presentation/156/ systemd is, to put it mildly, controversial. As a FreeBSD developer I decided I wanted to know why. I delved into the history of bootstrap systems, and even the history of UNIX and other contemporary operating systems, to try and work out why something like systemd was seem as necessary, if not desirable. I also tried to work out why so many people found it so upsetting, annoying, or otherwise rage-inducing. Join me on a journey through the bootstrap process, the history of init, the reasons why change can be scary, and the discovery of a part of your OS you may not even know existed. linux.conf.au is a conference about the Linux operating system, and all aspects of the thriving ecosystem of Free and Open Source Software that has grown up around it. Run since 1999, in a different Australian or New Zealand city each year, by a team of local volunteers, LCA invites more than 500 people to learn from the people who shape the future of Open Source. For more information on the conference see linux.conf.au/ #linux.conf.au #linux #foss #opensource

Why it's here

17 people recommend this

What people say. Recommended as a fair, balanced, and highly informative perspective on systemd from a BSD developer's point of view.

indigoon Lobsters • Recommends

The Tragedy of systemd (2019)
16View on Lobsters

TimeBearingDownon Hacker News • Recommends

On “Ubuntu 24.04 (and Debian) removed libsystemd from SSH server dependencies”

…emd accentuated its ability to stay relevant with enterprise Linux, made it even easier to package for, and has been a useful tool in diagnosing service issues and managing bad software for me. I’m not sure how often it’s posted here but Benno Rice formerly of FreeBSD Core Team has an excellent and amusing discussion of systemd’s technical merits. link to this video…
View on Hacker News

eroppleon Hacker News • Recommends

On “A BSD person tries Alpine Linux”

…Unix-like that already existed: MacOS. Benno Rice has an excellent presentation on systemd that's worth watching through to the end; unlike most of the table-pounding (and "it's just svchost.exe!!" is exactly that), he provides what I think is a pretty fair--and, interestingly to me, a BSD-grounded--view as to where systemd is strong and is weak. link to this video…
View on Hacker News

SahAssaron Hacker News • Recommends

On “Systemd, 10 years later: a historical and technical retrospective (2020)”

link to this video (The Tragedy of systemd) is an interesting talk on this topic from the view of someone (Benno Rice) in BSD land. Highly recommended. EDIT: this is mentioned in the article, thanks koalacola
View on Hacker News

fermigieron Hacker News • Recommends

On “Sixos: A nix OS without systemd [video]”

There is a wonderful talk by Benno Rice a few years ago. Insightful and entertaining. Not focussed only on the negatives, BTW. link link to this video HN discusion: link LWN comments: link
View on Hacker News

nickysielickion Hacker News • Recommends

On “Systemd can be a cause of restrictions on daemons”

I linked it elsewhere in this thread, but you should really watch this talk, particularly 12:45 through 16:20: link to this video tl;dr: systemd isn't meant to be an init system, it's meant to manage services, and the alternative world where you don't have a unified system for managing services and events actually sucks.
View on Hacker News

isostaticon Hacker News • Recommends

On “The Tragedy of Systemd [video]”

I think that the section on change at is great. The first 1500 seconds are about systemd any why it is and what it's trying to do, but that doesn't really get to the core of why I complain about it. link to this video Systemd is change. Massive change that's being forced on us by a twat. Unlike Linux, which was a kernel delivered by a twat but was take-it or leave-it, this is being forced on us. It's untrustworthy and threatening and unknown. In some cases it's an attack on our identity -- "the way you did it in the past is rubbish, do it this way". Clearly we are going to be defensive about it. This isn't unique to people who've used linux for the last 3 decades. Douglas Adams knew this 20 years ago:…
View on Hacker News

masklinnon Hacker News • Recommends

On “Linux distros without systemd”

> SystemD definitely spurred some controversies years ago but is it that bad in 2019? The reasons for the controversies have not really changed (lennart, the idea that it's not "unixy", a takeover of many subsystems by various systemd components, …) so people who didn't like systemd years ago probably still don't. As somebody who's not really involved, I found Benno Rice's The Tragedy of Systemd0 interesting and enlightening. 0 link to this video
View on Hacker News

holstvoogdon Hacker News • Recommends

On “Linux distros without systemd”

I recommend watching this to give you some perspective on the SystemD hate: link to this video I too was furious about the existence of systemd, but now I realize that was mostly because I don't want new things and consider many new things to be bad because they are new and there have been a few 'bad apples' in my personal experience
View on Hacker News

bromonkeyon Hacker News • Recommends

On “macOS to FreeBSD migration a.k.a. why I left macOS”

"Linux has systemd" and that's why the author didn't select it supposedly. I hear this line of thought from people that use FreeBSD often, although I suspect if you ask many of those people why systemd is so horrible you won't actually hear a legitimate (and still relevant) reason from them. I suggest anyone that thinks systemd is terrible and doesn't spend lots of time in Linux to watch this presentation by Benno Rice. link to this video
View on Hacker News

mapgrepon Hacker News • Recommends

On “FreeBSD 13.0 Beta1 Now Available”

Wouldn’t have to be systemd, macOS has launchd for init, FreeBSD could come up with its own thing. This is a good talk I saw recently (by a FreeBSD contributor) on why these sorts of systems have become more common, and why they seem so sweeping in scope. link to this video (In fact systemd and launchd are so tailored to their respective operating systems that FreeBSD likely would have to do their own init replacement if they cared to.)
View on Hacker News

Ballason Hacker News • Recommends

On “Avoiding Complexity with Systemd”

You have probably already seen this, but I found this an interesting explanation to the why question: link to this video
View on Hacker News

IntelMineron Hacker News • Recommends

On “Slackware Linux 15.0 RC3”

There was a great talk by a FreeBSD developer about systemd, and specifically the (in his eyes, somewhat unwarranted) hatred it has attracted and why link to this video
View on Hacker News

klysmon Hacker News • Recommends

On “Version 5 of systemd-free Debian remix Devuan is here”

For those looking to understand some of the history of the anti-systemd feelings, I found this presentation useful: The Tragedy of systemd ( link to this video )
View on Hacker News

jimmaswellon Hacker News • Recommends

On “Xorg being removed. What does this mean?”

I never had any horse in systemd/init.d and wasn't too familiar with the issue until I watched this presentation. systemd seems reasonable enough after considering it. link to this video
View on Hacker News

nerdponxon Hacker News • Recommends

On “Systemd through the eyes of a musl distribution maintainer”

I always appreciated this presentation for being a reasonable and balanced take, if you're interested in other examples: link to this video
View on Hacker News