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Failing to Fail: The Spiderweb Software Way

GDC Festival of Gaming

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  • Recommended by 11 people: 11 on Hacker News.
  • A classic. People kept recommending it from 2018 to 2025.
  • Presented by Jeff Vogel, founder of Spiderweb Software
  • May be out of date. Uploaded 8 years ago, in an area where tools change fast.
  • An opinion. It argues one side of a question engineers disagree on.

Beginner. No background in the topic needed.

569K views8 years ago11 recommendations

Game developmentCareers and interviewsGame designGame programmingStartups

Jeff Vogel shares a retrospective on how Spiderweb Software has survived in the indie game business since 1994 without chasing massive growth.

In this GDC 2018 talk, Spiderweb Software's Jeff Vogel presents a retrospective on his company's history and how they've managed to stay in the game-making business since 1994. Register for GDC: ubm.io/2gk5KTU Join the GDC mailing list: gdconf.com/subscribe Follow GDC on Twitter: twitter.com/Official_GDC GDC talks cover a range of developmental topics including game design, programming, audio, visual arts, business management, production, online games, and much more. We post a fresh GDC video every day. Subscribe to the channel to stay on top of regular updates, and check out GDC Vault for thousands of more in-depth talks from our archives.

Why it's here

11 people recommend this

What people say. Highly recommended as a legendary, entertaining, and realistic talk on the business of indie game development and long-term survival.

cpetersoon Hacker News • Recommends

On “How ‘Baldur’s Gate’ Saved the Computer RPG”

Jeff Vogel from Spiderweb Software have an awesome retrospective on his games and company at GDC 2018: "Failing to Fill: The Spiderweb Software Way" link to this video
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cpetersoon Hacker News • Recommends

On “Ask HN: Best talks of 2018?”

Jeff Vogel from Spiderweb Software gave an awesome retrospective on 24 years of creating old-school-style fantasy RPGs at GDC 2018: "Failing to Fill: The Spiderweb Software Way" link to this video
View on Hacker News

hartroron Hacker News • Recommends

On “Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap”

Jeff is an enjoyable speaker, his latest GDC talk is fantastic (and a better version of this blog post). link to this video
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hu3on Hacker News • Recommends

On “1999 Game Developers Conference (GDC) Recordings Archive”

Speaking about GDC, if you're into game development or just curious, this talk is legendary and inspirational to aspiring game devs (and very intertaining to boot): link to this video "In this GDC 2018 talk, Spiderweb Software's Jeff Vogel presents a retrospective on his company's history and how they've managed to stay in the game-making business since 1994."
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Jachon Hacker News • Recommends

On “Epic Games Supports Blender Foundation with $1.2M”

There are probably economies of scale, sure, which is part of why Epic can get away with a lower fee for now. But it's also just business. They know how much it costs without economies of scale, and that sets a floor. link to this video Here's a talk from a very old indie company, there's one section talking about how they existed pre-Steam (and other stores they use since Steam's not exclusive) and appreciate what it's enabled.
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ahaferburgon Hacker News • Recommends

On “The Glorious, Profitable, Inescapable Art of Addiction”

Great talk from the author: link to this video > In this GDC 2018 talk, Spiderweb Software's Jeff Vogel presents a retrospective on his company's history and how they've managed to stay in the game-making business since 1994.
View on Hacker News

eroppleon Hacker News • Recommends

On “Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap”

I recall that post (I've been a fan of JV's work, and his blog, for a long time!) but that's ten years old now and the market has gotten more competitive. I think that post is actually pre-Steam, though might push it the other way--I recall that he did really well for himself early on after going to Steam. He has a really good GDC talk that goes into more detail and might shed light on why he operates the way he does: link to this video
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BrS96bVxXBLzf5Bon Hacker News • Recommends

On “Getting sweet patron money on the modern internet (2020)”

The author of the article, Jeff Vogel, is a few steps (25 years) ahead of you. link to this video (like the article, a humour-laced talk, enjoyable)
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Rd6n6on Hacker News • Recommends

On “Getting sweet patron money on the modern internet (2020)”

The author did a great GDC talk about being an indie developer in the brick and mortar, pre-steam days. He talks at one point about how people had to buy a shareware cd from some kiosk, then phone him, argue about the price, mail him a cheque or money order, then wait for a cdrom in the mail to buy a game from him back then, but he made it work and is still going link to this video
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SuboptimalEngon Hacker News • Recommends

On “Ask HN: Hackernews for game developers?”

I saw his talk on GDC (Game Developers Conference) about this exact topic - it made it to my bookmarks list! It's called Failing to Fail: The Spiderweb Software Way0 for anyone curious. 0 link to this video
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mattlon Hacker News • Recommends

On “I am the cheapest bastard in indie games (2019)”

I really enjoyed Jeff’s talk at GDC a few years ago. link to this video It inspired me to go check out his games and now I have bought all of them on Steam.
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moregriston Hacker News • Recommends

On “Donkey Kong champion wins defamation case against Australian YouTuber Karl Jobst”

You’re spot on about the chances in a hit-based industry. That said, Jeff Vogel has spoken at length 0 about how he’s stayed in business for 30-ish years with a middle class lifestyle. Including the lean times. I think it’s pretty inspirational that there’s a way to make game development work if your primary goal isn’t getting rich, but to have a comfortable life and enjoy what you do. 0 link to this video
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eroppleon Hacker News • Mentions

On “Valve creates new revenue sharing tiers to give big sellers a break”

I'm pretty sure it's not the talk you're thinking of, but Jeff Vogel (who has been mostly-successfully making indie games consistently since 1995) mentions it in this GDC vault talk: link to this video They were able to stop paying a third employee when they went to Steam. That's a lot of value to the business.
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eroppleon Hacker News • Mentions

On “Facebook wants up to 30% of fan subscriptions vs Patreon’s 5%”

link to this video And I don't, tbh, have an opinion about the rest of your post; I'm talking about Steam, not Apple. But, having gone down this road myself (and why I cite the Jeff Vogel talk): you would almost certainly spend more than 30% on customer support and payment processing and fraud protection and accounting. Or you would do it incorrectly, which is worse. And, regardless, you'd expose yourself to a way smaller audience. It seems to me to be a good way to shoot yourself in the foot for no gain (and as an app developer myself I certainly wouldn't bother).
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TheRealPomaxon Hacker News • Mentions

On “Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap”

A nice related video is his GDC 2018 talk "failing to fail", over on link to this video I don't particularly like the art that his games use (and I also grew up on Ultima) but I'm 100% behind the idea that if "trying for better art" (and note that "better" in no way guarantees "something people will call good") means putting the entire business at risk, only someone with no sense of responsibility and no understanding of the value of a dollar would take that risk. Not in year one, and still not in year 25.
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zerron Hacker News • Mentions

On “I Am the Cheapest Bastard in Indie Games”

> I don't have that much cash on hand. Nowhere near. After watching his recent very interesting GDC talk* - he mentioned high six-figures income ($800K+). I guess he spends a lot :) EDIT: * link to this video
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